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	<title>Comments for Gunpowder and Lead</title>
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	<link>http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Security. Small Arms. International Affairs. Etc.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:25:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Indecent Acts? by Heron</title>
		<link>http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/indecent-acts/#comment-670</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Heron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-670</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the issue of interrogation, I&#039;d like to see a film that made the point that beating, threatening, and torturing your prisoner actually harms your goal of gathering information, as it gives him a direct, personal reason to both resist and lie to you.  Not to say I&#039;d expect that point to be made in this movie, but for a film to make it would be gratifying.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the issue of interrogation, I&#8217;d like to see a film that made the point that beating, threatening, and torturing your prisoner actually harms your goal of gathering information, as it gives him a direct, personal reason to both resist and lie to you.  Not to say I&#8217;d expect that point to be made in this movie, but for a film to make it would be gratifying.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Indecent Acts? by Heron</title>
		<link>http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/indecent-acts/#comment-669</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Heron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-669</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The last number I heard from an advocate on vet issues was 18 suicides by veterans a day.  The military is well aware of that, has no intention of doing anything to stop it, so instead they&#039;ll make stuff like this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last number I heard from an advocate on vet issues was 18 suicides by veterans a day.  The military is well aware of that, has no intention of doing anything to stop it, so instead they&#8217;ll make stuff like this.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Indecent Acts? by Heron</title>
		<link>http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/indecent-acts/#comment-668</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Heron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hope not to offend here, but of course it&#039;s propaganda.  Do you think the Chiefs of Staff just woke up one day and said to themselves, &quot;You know what? Let&#039;s get into the movie business!&quot;?  Recruitment is down, citizens are clamoring for military cuts, people want the wars to end and there is serious discussion along the fringes of the Beltway crowd (sites like The Daily Beast, The Atlantic, Slate) about pulling back our military deployments around the world as well.  Mainstream journalists from NPR to the Washington Post have spent the last 5 years writing exposes about how terrible the military treats the injured, the disturbed, and veterans in general.  This movie is unquestionably being made for the direct purpose of trying to boost recruitment and slow down or stop the erosion of support in the United States for the military as an institution.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope not to offend here, but of course it&#8217;s propaganda.  Do you think the Chiefs of Staff just woke up one day and said to themselves, &#8220;You know what? Let&#8217;s get into the movie business!&#8221;?  Recruitment is down, citizens are clamoring for military cuts, people want the wars to end and there is serious discussion along the fringes of the Beltway crowd (sites like The Daily Beast, The Atlantic, Slate) about pulling back our military deployments around the world as well.  Mainstream journalists from NPR to the Washington Post have spent the last 5 years writing exposes about how terrible the military treats the injured, the disturbed, and veterans in general.  This movie is unquestionably being made for the direct purpose of trying to boost recruitment and slow down or stop the erosion of support in the United States for the military as an institution.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Indecent Acts? by Abersouth</title>
		<link>http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/indecent-acts/#comment-666</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Abersouth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No love for Jag?  And why limit it to the Navy. Go all out special forces. The Green Berets with John Wayne is a very interesting example. Is it propaganda? Was it trying to sell a war?  Things are different now, but not unrecognizable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No love for Jag?  And why limit it to the Navy. Go all out special forces. The Green Berets with John Wayne is a very interesting example. Is it propaganda? Was it trying to sell a war?  Things are different now, but not unrecognizable.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Indecent Acts? by Russell Burgos</title>
		<link>http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/indecent-acts/#comment-665</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Russell Burgos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 20:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder if you could clarify the basis of your objection. 

You write, &quot;my primary concern is that the concept originated within the corporate NSW community, which means that it was started specifically to promote their agenda.&quot;

Are you taking exception with the fact that Naval Special Warfare -- as an institution -- would see some kind of tactical advantage in the bureaucratic (i.e., budget) battle in cooperating with the film?  

Or are you concerned more generally that, by shining a spotlight on NSW (and presumably glorifying it -- not that it needs Hollywood for that) NSW will take pride of place in the Special Operations community, draining resources from Army or Air Force SOF?

I ask because you state you are *not* troubled by Defense Department cooperation with &quot;obviously&quot; fictional stories like &quot;Transformers&quot; or by DoD cooperation on &quot;historical&quot; pictures -- the 3rd Special Forces Group, for example, provided extras and technical advice for the 1968 David L. Wolper production, &quot;The Devil&#039;s Brigade,&quot; a picture about the First Special Service Force in Italy in 1943. 

Something about the contemporary nature of &quot;Act of Valor&quot; and currently-serving SEALs would seem to be at issue for you.  Is this an ethical objection?

In _Operation Hollywood: How the Pentagon Shapes and Censors the Movies_ (Prometheus 2004), David L. Robb (a reporter for &quot;Daily Variety&quot;) discussed the involvement of VF-51 and the commands and crews of the U.S.S. Ranger and NAS Miramar in the production of &quot;Top Gun.&quot;

In an interview with &quot;Mother Jones,&quot; Robb objected to this practice because, &quot;People are going off to war and getting killed, in part because of some movie that they saw that was adjusted by the military.&quot;  As proof, Robb claims that &quot;Top Gun&quot; boosted Navy recruiting inquiries by 500%.  

Even if that were the case -- he cites a recruiting command official but no raw data -- we obviously don&#039;t know what percentage of those inquiries became successfully closed recruiting contracts, nor do we (or can we) know what percent of those successful recruiting contracts would *not* have otherwise been recruits in the absence of the picture.

While &quot;Mother Jones&quot; was sympathetic to his objection, it was empirically baseless; all else being equal, one is just as likely to be inspired by a recruiting poster (as I was, of a jungle-fatigue-wearing Army Ranger in 1982) as by a movie.

I am increasingly interested in these kinds of cultural-strategic interactions, so if you could clarify the basis for your objection I&#039;d be grateful.

Best regards,

Russell Burgos
International Institute, UCLA]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if you could clarify the basis of your objection. </p>
<p>You write, &#8220;my primary concern is that the concept originated within the corporate NSW community, which means that it was started specifically to promote their agenda.&#8221;</p>
<p>Are you taking exception with the fact that Naval Special Warfare &#8212; as an institution &#8212; would see some kind of tactical advantage in the bureaucratic (i.e., budget) battle in cooperating with the film?  </p>
<p>Or are you concerned more generally that, by shining a spotlight on NSW (and presumably glorifying it &#8212; not that it needs Hollywood for that) NSW will take pride of place in the Special Operations community, draining resources from Army or Air Force SOF?</p>
<p>I ask because you state you are *not* troubled by Defense Department cooperation with &#8220;obviously&#8221; fictional stories like &#8220;Transformers&#8221; or by DoD cooperation on &#8220;historical&#8221; pictures &#8212; the 3rd Special Forces Group, for example, provided extras and technical advice for the 1968 David L. Wolper production, &#8220;The Devil&#8217;s Brigade,&#8221; a picture about the First Special Service Force in Italy in 1943. </p>
<p>Something about the contemporary nature of &#8220;Act of Valor&#8221; and currently-serving SEALs would seem to be at issue for you.  Is this an ethical objection?</p>
<p>In _Operation Hollywood: How the Pentagon Shapes and Censors the Movies_ (Prometheus 2004), David L. Robb (a reporter for &#8220;Daily Variety&#8221;) discussed the involvement of VF-51 and the commands and crews of the U.S.S. Ranger and NAS Miramar in the production of &#8220;Top Gun.&#8221;</p>
<p>In an interview with &#8220;Mother Jones,&#8221; Robb objected to this practice because, &#8220;People are going off to war and getting killed, in part because of some movie that they saw that was adjusted by the military.&#8221;  As proof, Robb claims that &#8220;Top Gun&#8221; boosted Navy recruiting inquiries by 500%.  </p>
<p>Even if that were the case &#8212; he cites a recruiting command official but no raw data &#8212; we obviously don&#8217;t know what percentage of those inquiries became successfully closed recruiting contracts, nor do we (or can we) know what percent of those successful recruiting contracts would *not* have otherwise been recruits in the absence of the picture.</p>
<p>While &#8220;Mother Jones&#8221; was sympathetic to his objection, it was empirically baseless; all else being equal, one is just as likely to be inspired by a recruiting poster (as I was, of a jungle-fatigue-wearing Army Ranger in 1982) as by a movie.</p>
<p>I am increasingly interested in these kinds of cultural-strategic interactions, so if you could clarify the basis for your objection I&#8217;d be grateful.</p>
<p>Best regards,</p>
<p>Russell Burgos<br />
International Institute, UCLA</p>
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		<title>Comment on Strength in Numbers by Gulliver</title>
		<link>http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/2012/02/06/strength-in-numbers/#comment-657</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gulliver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 15:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/?p=1253#comment-657</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dude, we all do it. It&#039;s basically unavoidable. I just think people need to be more conscious of the fact that the cost (and effort) involved in developing and employing real warfighting capability must take into account far more than the sticker price for the hardware. (This eventually drifts into &quot;hollow force&quot; territory...)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dude, we all do it. It&#8217;s basically unavoidable. I just think people need to be more conscious of the fact that the cost (and effort) involved in developing and employing real warfighting capability must take into account far more than the sticker price for the hardware. (This eventually drifts into &#8220;hollow force&#8221; territory&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Indecent Acts? by Will Moore</title>
		<link>http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/indecent-acts/#comment-655</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Will Moore]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 14:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-655</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To wrap one&#039;s head around this watch two films back to back: Oliver Stone&#039;s &quot;Born on the 4th of July&quot; and John Wayne&#039;s &quot;The Green Berets.&quot; Wayne made his film for the same reason &quot;Acts of Valor&quot; we&#039;re made.  Oliver made his film because films like Wayne&#039;s are made.  The annual ratio of Afghan/Iraq Vet to civilian suicide in the US today is roughly 20:1, according to the DoD (search &quot;veterans suicide site:.gov). These films dupe youth into believing crap that many films and books debunk: Johnny Got His Gun; Apocalypse Now; White Man, Black War; Waltz with Bashir.  There are many, many examples.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To wrap one&#8217;s head around this watch two films back to back: Oliver Stone&#8217;s &#8220;Born on the 4th of July&#8221; and John Wayne&#8217;s &#8220;The Green Berets.&#8221; Wayne made his film for the same reason &#8220;Acts of Valor&#8221; we&#8217;re made.  Oliver made his film because films like Wayne&#8217;s are made.  The annual ratio of Afghan/Iraq Vet to civilian suicide in the US today is roughly 20:1, according to the DoD (search &#8220;veterans suicide site:.gov). These films dupe youth into believing crap that many films and books debunk: Johnny Got His Gun; Apocalypse Now; White Man, Black War; Waltz with Bashir.  There are many, many examples.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Indecent Acts? by Charlie Sherpa</title>
		<link>http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/indecent-acts/#comment-654</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charlie Sherpa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 14:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-654</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t have the cites on me, but I seem to recall that Navy recruitment was positively affected by &quot;Top Gun&quot; (1986). Anyone care to compare/contrast &quot;Top Gun&quot; and &quot;Act of Valor&quot;? Seems a potentially more useful case study than &quot;Navy Seals&quot; (1990).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have the cites on me, but I seem to recall that Navy recruitment was positively affected by &#8220;Top Gun&#8221; (1986). Anyone care to compare/contrast &#8220;Top Gun&#8221; and &#8220;Act of Valor&#8221;? Seems a potentially more useful case study than &#8220;Navy Seals&#8221; (1990).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Indecent Acts? by jimmysky77</title>
		<link>http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/indecent-acts/#comment-653</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jimmysky77]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 13:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-653</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Ian.  Your description matches up with what I anticipated from the film.  I&#039;m actually looking forward to seeing it so that I can comment on it directly.

I am glad to hear that the interrogation portion was handled with a higher level of realism.  For all the (justifiable) attention placed on &#039;enhanced interrogation,&#039; over the years, what you described sounds much closer to reality for the vast, vast majority of interrogations.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Ian.  Your description matches up with what I anticipated from the film.  I&#8217;m actually looking forward to seeing it so that I can comment on it directly.</p>
<p>I am glad to hear that the interrogation portion was handled with a higher level of realism.  For all the (justifiable) attention placed on &#8216;enhanced interrogation,&#8217; over the years, what you described sounds much closer to reality for the vast, vast majority of interrogations.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Indecent Acts? by jimmysky77</title>
		<link>http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/indecent-acts/#comment-652</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jimmysky77]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 13:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gunpowderandlead.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-652</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not sure I follow, byt &quot;OTHER end of the spectrum&quot; do you mean Social Security and Medicare?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure I follow, byt &#8220;OTHER end of the spectrum&#8221; do you mean Social Security and Medicare?</p>
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